FTA - I'm confused.

[curiosity]

I've been reviewing a lot of posts regard FTA tv and I'm a little confused.

FTA - Free to Air television - right?

If so, will.spencer has made quite a few comments about checking with your subscriber.

I don't get it... If you have to subscribe, why not just use the equipment from BEV or Direct TV or whatever, why bother with the FTA receivers.

I've heard that the FTA receivers will get free TV legally and that there are hackers out there that get the Direct TV and echostar illegally. I'm interested in the free programming if it is legal.

Can someone clarify this please??

[Will.Spencer]

With Free To Air TV, you can get some programming free, legally. In addition, there is other programming that you can subscribe to.

With Dish Network and DirecTV, you have to pay to receive any programming at all. (legally)

[curiosity]

Thank you for your reply. I thought the whole point to FTA was that it was FREE. Why would you want to spend the money on the FTA equipment if you are just going to subscribe to DirectTV or Dish Network??

I live in Canada - Brantford, ON... I'm getting sick and tired of spending so much money every month for BEV or SC. I would like to get a SC dish for the local networks in HD. But I've been looking into it and it seems as though all the other channels I watch are available on FTA (legally - i think). That's actually what I was hoping someone can help me with.

I'm mainly interested in TBS, KTLA/UPN, WB/CW, WPIX, movie channels (ie. HBO, Star, etc) and FX. My inlaws would like to get the BBC stuff from England.

I found a site that "lists" the free channels and I just wanted to verify the legality of them, and make sure the channels are available, so if anyone can verify these channels for me that would be great.

Links...
UK Channels
Canadian Channels
U.S. Channels

Is this site correct and all these channels are available FREE and legal? Also, do the networks like ABC and NBC brodcast in HD over FTA?

[Will.Spencer]

Originally Posted by curiosity

Thank you for your reply. I thought the whole point to FTA was that it was FREE. Why would you want to spend the money on the FTA equipment if you are just going to subscribe to DirectTV or Dish Network?

You don't. You subscribe to FTA to get free programming and then you don't subscribe to DirectTV or Dish Network -- but you may subscribe to other services.

Originally Posted by curiosity

I found a site that "lists" the free channels and I just wanted to verify the legality of them, and make sure the channels are available...

I am worried that we are headed for disaster here. The list of channels which you can receive via FTA is in constant flux. A list which is accurate today may not be accurate when your receiver and dish arrive.

FTA isn't like commercial satellite TV. Its a hobbiests proposition. FTA is for people who want to "see what's out there", it's not a good choice for people who want to receive specific channels. Those people are target customers for Dish Network and DirecTV.

Originally Posted by curiosity

Also, do the networks like ABC and NBC brodcast in HD over FTA?

Many FTA channels are broadcast in HD.

[curiosity]

Thanks so much for clarifing the FTA/Subscription thing.

I like tinkering with tech stuff so I'm not really looking for a plug and play solution. I get right into this stuff so that is pretty appealing to me.

As for the regular viewing of particular channels... I'm going to get either a small dish subscription to SC for the local networks (roughly $20/mth instead of $70 which I'm paying now) OR I may go with an OTA antenna which should get my locals in HD. 90% of my TV viewing is regular series on my locals. However, when we are in holidays/reruns or something, I find the selection poor. So...

I'm considering FTA satellite for the purpose of movie channels like the HBO and starz, etc. With SC I refuse to pay $20/mth for TMN as I think the selection is usually pretty crappy and not worth the money. I do like HBO tho, and from the looks of it, I think I'll like the starz network.

I guess my main question would be - am I on the right track with those particular channels OR are they absolutely incorrect.

[Will.Spencer]

Looking at Lyngsat's list of Canadian channels, the selection looks pretty minimal.

That is, with keeping in mind that you will have to subscribe to the channels which are encrypted with Digicipher 2.

What's left?

• Arya
• ASN
• Bell ExpressVu Info Channel
• EWTN
• Movie Central High Definition
• MétéoMédia
• Radio Canada Montréal
• The Miracle Channel
• The Weather Network
• Télé-Québec

[curiosity]

Okay...

So, HBO, Star, etc all need a subscription to view??

[Will.Spencer]

Originally Posted by curiosity

So, HBO, Star, etc all need a subscription to view??

Yes, exactly.

[curiosity]

I don't get it then... Why would anyone want to spend both money and time on equipment to receive FTA (free tv) legally, when they don't even get good channels?

[Will.Spencer]

Canada appears to have a poor FTA channel selection. Other parts of the globe are better.

But really, no free option is ever going to compete with a paid option. With DirecTV or Dish Network, your subscription money goes towards paying for all that wonderful content.

If the paid options were not better than the free options, no one would ever subscribe to Dish Network or DirecTV.

FTA is mainly for hobbyists who want to play with TV, not for people who want to watch TV.

[curiosity]

Ahh... I see.

I like the idea of playing with the tv stuff but I also want my efforts/time to be rewarded with "worth while" content.

Unfortunately, in Canada, I cannot subscribe to DirecTV or Dish Network and therefore the only option to getting those feeds would be illegal options which I don't want to do. I've been doing a lot of research on the subject and some people are saying that it isn't illegal to decode a foreign signal in Canada because the way the law is written. But, in 2002 the Supreme Court definitely ruled that the "intention" of the crtc law was to prohibit the decryption of ANY signal whether Canadian or foreign, the only exception being if you have been given authorization to do so via a subscript. DirecTV and DN are not authorized in canada to grant any authorization, but this doesn't make it legal to decrypt their signal. The act of decrypting the signal alone is the illegal part (or modifying equipment to do it).

I have full intentions on keeping my subscription for my regular viewing with SC but I was looking for a way to supplement it. I do A LOT of tv viewing and so when re-runs come on, I've pretty much seen all the shows that I like. so, I thought by adding some FTA channels that it would supplement my viewing with things like HBO and such.

I know that the channels are always changing but can you (or someone else) direct me to a list of channels that is currently available so that I can see if it is worth it to me to buy an FTA dish? Again, I know it changing all the time and that I shouldn't be doing for FREE TV only, but like I said, I enjoy the tinkering but I just want the reward of worthwhile viewing.

The channels don't necessarily have to be Canadian, US channels are fine. UK channels are fine. I just have NO interest in foreign language channels.

Sorry for the long post - and again, thanks for your help.

[curiosity]

Also...

You mentioned that the DC2 needs a subscription. Does that mean that the channels that list DVB on the lyngsat.com site do not require a subscription?? If so, does that mean that one of the STARZ channels and 2 of the HBO channels are available??

I read somewhere that the 4DTV receiver will handle DC2 - Is this accurate and is it legal?

Thanks.

PS - If possible can you please still answer the previous questions too?

[Will.Spencer]

Originally Posted by curiosity

Unfortunately, in Canada, I cannot subscribe to DirecTV or Dish and therefore the only option to getting those feeds would be illegal options which I don't want to do.

Oh my, I had thought that was fixed. Canada is a huge market to DirecTV and Dish Network to be missing. Governments appear to seldom make good decisions.

Are there satellite TV vendors that do server Canada -- legally?

Originally Posted by curiosity

I know that the channels are always changing but can you (or someone else) direct me to a list of channels that is currently available so that I can see if it is worth it to me to buy an FTA dish?

Lyngsat's lists are the best on the Internet. Actually, they are so much better that everyone else has pretty much stopped maintaining lists. But todays list is no good tomorrow.

Originally Posted by curiosity

The channels don't necessarily have to be Canadian, US channels are fine. UK channels are fine.

Ah, but US and UK channels are not beamed into Canada. You're outside the footprint of those satellite transmitters.

Originally Posted by curiosity

You mentioned that the DC2 needs a subscription. Does that mean that the channels that list DVB on the lyngsat.com site do not require a subscription?

DVB, by itself, does not provide a means for conditional access

The tempting answer is to say that yes, those feeds do not require a subscription. However, I am restrained by two issues:

• Legal -- the feeds may be technically receivable, but may legally require a subscription. I'm not a lawyer, and I'm certainly not a Canadian lawyer.
• Technical -- there could be conditional access systems in use, and Lyngsat's page could simply not be mentioning them.

You really need to find an FTA enthusiast in your area to discuss what they are currently able to receive.

It is best to think of an FTA receiver in the same way you would think of a radio scanner. You turn the equipment on and you explore your universe.

Originally Posted by curiosity

I read somewhere that the 4DTV receiver will handle DC2

DigiCipher II security has been circumvented, but you still need a subscription to stay legal.

I am not very familiar with 4DTV. You might refer to the 4DTV FAQ.

Also on that topic, another excellent resource is North American MPEG-2 Information.

Unfortunately, neither document has been updated recently.

[curiosity]

Thanks again so much for all your help, you are very knowledgable and helpful.

As for your question regarding the legalities of local vendors for DISH and DirecTV the answer is NO, techniquely it isn't legal. Most are referring to it as "grey area" but in actual fact it isn't legal.

Now... Enforced is another thing. My understanding is that the enforcement on an individual basis is pretty much non-existant. At worst it seems as though the RCMP would just seize the equipment 'probably' without any further prosecution. That being said, I do believe they are raiding dealers and such to confiscate their equipment.

If you actually read the CRTC rule/law on this issue it says that the act of decrypting a signal in Canada (regardless of it's origin) IS illegal. However, IF a company is authorized/licensed to sell their programming in Canada (DirecTV and DISH are not) then that company could grant an exception to the rule (which is done through subscription). The supreme court of canada ruled that just because DirecTV and DISH are not legally allowed to sell to Canadians doesn't give canadians the right to decrypt their signals. Actually, it is the act of decrypting the signal that is illegal regardless of who's signal it is.

Now, the supreme court also stated (my interpretation - paraphrased) that canadians have a "due diligence" to try and show that they are doing whatever they can to "not-rip-off" the companies. SO... If they are subscribing and listing an american address through a dealer, techniquely they're not allowed to but they're being honest about it and paying for it. However, if the company (DirecTV/DISH) catches wind of it, they WILL cancel the service because they are legally not allowed to KNOWINGLY provide service to Canadian Residents.

** Please note that I am not a lawyer either and the above comments are just my interpretations.

[Will.Spencer]

Ah, that last is what people in the Carribean tend to do. They buy a setup in Florida and then take it home.

The only difference is that it's not illegal in most Carribean nations.

[curiosity]

Yeah... They say Canada is a free coutry but there seems to be a lot of restrictions.

Anyways... Thanks for all your help!